YOUR VIEW: What should happen to the seafront palm trees?
Friday August 20 2010 - Last Updated at 14:45
Over the past few weeks we’ve had more than 50 emails, tweets and Facebook messages about the state of the palm trees on Southend and Westcliff seafronts.
Many people have expressed concern that the trees look weary, weather beaten and generally unwell.
Matthew Dakeyne from Leigh said:
“The palm trees just look really ill.”
Karen Hispey from Southend said:
“I don’t really see the point but they look ok, think the money could have been better spent on sprouting out other things”.
Nick Skinner from Southend said:
“I like them, better than just concrete adds something different, something interesting”.
Craig Scrogie from Leigh on Sea said:
“Those trees look embarrassingly wind-ravaged and uncared for.”
However Southend Council has assured longpier.com that the trees are NOT dying, but taking time to adjust to the less than hospitable conditions on the seafront.
The cost of planting the trees, installing the new cycle track and changing the layouty of parking along the front cost the council a reported £150,000.
In a statement, Derek Jarvis – the councillor responsible for culture told this website:
“The Council employs a team of Arboricultural Officers to manage the tree stock in the Borough, which includes over 20,000 highway trees.
“In 2009/10 we planted over 1,000 trees – a figure well in excess of our stated ‘two for one’ replacement policy.
“The vast majority of the trees we remove are taken down on grounds of safety or for tree health reasons.
“A few of the sea front palms are looking a little bedraggled at the moment but they are checked regularly and recently there has been evidence of new shoots appearing.
“Some of the trees have struggled with being transplanted. It is not uncommon for large trees to suffer from transplant shock.
“The palm trees are being watered on a regular basis. We have been keeping an eye on them to make sure we get the watering right as too much water will cause a problem.
“This species of palm – Trachycarpus fortunei, or Chusan Palm – was selected because it is very hardy and can withstand temperatures of -30 degrees.
“It is a species that we have been growing in the town for many years. There are quite a few growing on the seafront on the other side of the road.
“They are also present in the Shrubbery (formerly Never Never Land) and we have continued to plant new trees in Hamlet Court Road and on Pier Hill.
“In planting the trees we maximised the size of the planting pit and carefully prepared the planting medium which was a mix of good compost, soil and sand.
“The base of the pit was lined with coarse sand to improve the drainage as the prevailing soil conditions are heavy clay.
“Clay soil poses no problem to the palms and is the soil they have been growing in at the supplying nursery.
“The trees had to endure a period of cold northerly winds for the first few weeks.
“As a number of the trees have large crowns and a substantial number of fronds it was predicted that we would loose a number of these leaves during the establishment phase.
“This doesn’t necessarily pose a significant problem to the trees. The usual pattern of growth is that as the leaves die back they feed the tree.
“With this species we know that we have to maintain and remove old leaves at the appropriate time.
“Removing them too quickly reduces the plants food supply. We have supplemented the food supply with a specialist feed which is applied at the time of watering.
“As with any large scale planting scheme achieving 100 per cent success in establishing the trees is never guaranteed.
“Our past experience of tree planting in general is that we will always lose a small percentage.
“But there is no technical reason that the palms should not grow on quite happily particularly given the degree of preparation, maintenance and management.”
Campaign group SKIPP (Saxon King in Priory Park) – who have been vocal in trying to stop the removal of trees in the borough – had this to say:
“The first thing to note is the Council have removed most of the existing indigenous trees from the seafront as part of their ill conceived, City Beach Scheme.
“They have now planted non-indigenous semi-tropical Palms, 100 in total, at a cost to the tax payer of £1,500 per palm. During the course of our research, we discovered that you can buy the same trees, retail, individually (i.e. not a bulk buy) for as little as £1,000 each. So it would appear the council have over paid by at least 50% (very suspicious).
“Also, during our investigations we were told that Southend Borough Council had paid to fly in an arboreal expert from Italy, who advised that the palms were not suitable for our seafront. How much money did we pay for our arrogant Council to ignore the advice of the experts they consulted?
The Palms themselves are already in very poor condition, and they haven’t even faced the rigours of their first winter yet. Recently a SKIPP supporter reported witnessing two dead palms being carted away in the early hours of the morning, by Council contractor Tree Fella.
Subsequent to this report, the Council has confirmed that the two palms were dead, and had to be replaced. The obvious question following this clandestine replacement operation is, how many more have died and been replaced unobserved, and how much money has this cost?
“Several weeks ago, the council attempted to shore up the many palms with badly drooping branches, by tying cane and bits of sacking to them. As is evident by a quick trip along the seafront, this hurried botched job has failed!
“The Palms are not capable of surviving in such an exposed and harsh location, the combined effects of wind, cold and salt are having a terrible toll upon them. A local expert, and nursery owner has told SKIPP that he would be surprised if more than half survived the winter.
“Clearly, once again Southend Borough Council’s desire to change our town from a traditional seaside resort, into ‘Prada-on-Sea’, has resulted in a further disgraceful waste of public money.”
So – what should happen to the palm trees? Should they be pulled down and replaced with hardy trees? Do they add a touch of elegance to the seafront and should they remain? Leave a comment below and join the debate.
Coincidentally, I noticed the poor state of the trees for the first time this morning. Yes, they’re looking pretty wretched, but we should give them a chance. If they do fail, then we should replace them with hardier trees, such as the fir that’s doing very well in the middle of the car parking area between the Esplanade pub & Maxim’s. Don’t just rip them out and leave tarmac.
Give it time. They look a bit ragged now but they haven’t been in long. They make a great addition to the seafront.
I think they should leave these trees in for at least another year, surely the Arboricultural Officers know what they are doing more than a campaign group set up to worry about some artifacts found near a park, if they die then SKIPP can rejoice and these officers should be sent packing with a huge bill for their replacement, if they survive then we can laugh at SKIPP and they can go back to worrying about the saxon king and not everything else the council tries to do to bring Southend out of the seventies..
Give them a chance, they will take probably two or three years before they start looking better but it will be well worth it!
Quote Skipp “Also, during our investigations we were told that Southend Borough Council had paid to fly in an arboreal expert from Italy”
Why not tell us where you found this out, without giving full details of the investigation and full facts what proof is there.
The trees have not been in that long and already before they have had a chance to take root you are finding fault.
I hope that if the trees do thrive you admit that you were wrong on this issue, just like all the projects going on in town if they work will Skipp admit they got it wrong on all counts?
Can i suggest that Mr Jarvis takes a close look at the palm trees in hamlet court road and on pier hill they look extremly scruffy as well.They been given a chance and still look bad so how long before the Seafront ones improve.
.Can someone tell me how many more visitors will flock into the town to see the palm trees. or even the 100 foot lamposts. You have only got to look at the bland boring high street to realise change is not always a good thing(improvement is)sadley changes being made at the moment on the seafront are not going to bring any more money into the town.
You know what? We need more trees! More and more and more and more. When they look healthy, it will be a beautiful image for a our seafront. So much better than the tacky 1950′s vibe people seem so keen on.
We need to move forward and a massive part of that is our image. Am I saying that we should try and ape Miami or other popular sea-dwelling locations? Of course not. But the palm trees are a lovely idea. But we can’t stop now. We need to add so many that it doesn’t just look like a half-hearted attempt to liven things up.
A whole, uninterupted row of palm trees. That would be great. And maybe paint the sea wall or something. Nice vibrant colours rather than the depressingly familiar grey. Or the flaky, ancient blue paint on the various huts and benches.
Our seafront could and should be the envy of the rest of England. It’s time we made our prize jewel sparkle.
Firstly, I agree that we need more trees and we should plant more trees as in my opinion you can never have too many trees! But crucially, we should value and preserve the mature trees that we already have, instead of ripping them out for dubious reasons and then attemtping to justify it by replacing them with spindly saplings and non-indigenous varieties. Not only is that a blatant waste of money at a time when many residents are struggling to make ends meet, but anyone with half a brain knows that one (or even two) skinny, vulnerable saplings does not make up for one beautiful mature tree which has been growing for decades! It is insulting to those who care about trees and quite rightly want to preserve them at all costs when the Council keeps giving this excuse as if it really doesn’t understand what all the fuss is about! And I really don’t think they DO understand – these people don’t see mature trees as precious, unique and an asset to the town – they just see them as a commodity to be chopped up whenever they get in the way! And half the time, they don’t need to be in the way as plans could be made to work around them (an example being Vic Circus and the so-called “Golden Mile” where perfectly healthy trees that have been there all my life were chopped down for no good reason, just to make way for another expanse of concrete!). I have nothing against the palm trees along the seafront and of course I hope they survive and I don’t think anyone (especially SKIPP) would take pleasure in seeing them die, but the fact is that they are not doing well and ARE dying and the Council is replacing them at night or early in the morning when there are few people around to witness it, in a blatant attempt to cover it up! They also send in the same contractors to cut down our trees (which they know upsets many people) during the night, for the very same reason and I think it is therefore perfectly understandable why residents are angry, concerned and no longer willing to believe everything they are told. To illustrate my point and give just one example of several that I have (in writing) which shows that I have been lied to by the Council, I have an email from Lorraine Butler (the temporary manager who is being paid £550 A DAY!) in response to my question about why the dead palm trees were secretly replaced. In it she stated that “A small number of the palms have been exchanged as they were not looking their best…The palms which have been replaced HAVE BEEN POTTED ON AT OUR NURSERY FOR FUTURE RE-PLANTING” (my capitals). So….the Council denied to me that any palm trees have died, yet have now finally admitted to Longpier that 2 trees (that we know of) are in fact dead! This happens over and over again with Southend Council and causes so much bad feeling with those who care about trees and preserving the character of the town, as there is never any honesty, courtesy or straight answers forthcoming from them. They have once again tripped themselves up and shown that they cannot be trusted to tell us the truth as I was also assured by the Council in writing that the last remaining London plane at Vic Circus would be left alone but AGAIN, they sent fellers in during the night to cut it down and had a long and detailed excuse ready to churn out to the media the next day! The excuse they used was that it would’ve cost millions of pounds to re-route some BT cables but come on, how can it cost millions of pounds to re-route some cable and WHY didn’t they do their homework properly beforehand? It’s very easy to pass the buck and give reasons/excuses as to why mature trees have had to be cut down AFTER the event, when it’s too late for anyone to question or check out the stories that we are being fed (eg trees that are regularly struck down with Mystery Fatal Fungus whenever they are in the way of a Council plan)! I have put the following to the Council and have received no reply, but why is it, if the Council is telling the truth about BT cables, mystery fungus etc etc, they don’t communicate with residents or even their fellow non-Cabinet Councillors BEFORE the trees are ripped out and the “evidence” is turned into sawdust? Is it any wonder that people and the majority of the Council are so suspicious and fed up with the Cabinet when you can’t even believe their written word?
A few points the council asked ALL the untilitys for detailed plans of where they had their cables 7 pipes they all responded with plans, some time later BT send amened plans in showing the cables were in a diffrent location than they had orginally said so unless the council have psychic powers how where they to know the exact location of the cables when they said the last tree was safe.
People were not told it was going to be cut down as you would have had the protesters climbing it and chaining themselfs to it and causing delays and extra costs, so cut it down when there are not many people about is best.
The compnay that the council hires probably offerd the best deal on the contract so don’t sign up with one company then go with another and pat twice.
Fibre-opic cables are very expensive its not like the wires you have in your house they are specialised items, the cost of moving them would fall on the council as its the council that would want to move them and not BT, if it had been BT wanting to move them then the cost would have been BT’s.
Would you expect somebody else to pay for you to move because you wanted to…
Do you beleve everything the protest groups say, have you seen the latest SAEN posters, they clearly sate “Unlimited Night Flights” there has NEVER been any indication that this will happen infact the airport operaters want to CUT the number of permitted night flights.
To me this “statement” is nothing more than scaremongering.
A few points back….how do you KNOW the council asked the utilities for detailed plans? My point is that we can no longer be sure of anything the Council tells us because the Council’s word cannot be trusted!
Re the psychic powers – obviously no-one expects the Council to have these (seeing as they don’t even appear to possess basic human attributes in many cases), but they knew full well that they had issued letters to SKIPP and myself (and probably others), assuring them that the London plane was safe and that they had therefore misinformed and misled us. In Holdcroft’s press release, he said that they had known about this BT problem for some months (I can’t remember offhand how long he stated and I don’t have time to check back just now, but it was definitely more than 2 months). So WHY, in all that time, did the Council (and by the Council I mean the Cabinet of 9 as they were the only Councillors who were informed) not even have the decency to contact the people they had sent erroneous information to and tell them (and the rest of the Council) what was going on? It was sneaky, underhanded, scheming and downright rude and disrespectful to the rest of the Council and the decent people of this town who genuinely care about the few remaining mature trees that are still standing after the Waite Legacy. Someone should be held responsible for misleading residents and SKIPP – in the short response I received from Andrew Meddle he told me that Lorraine Butler was the most senior person involved with Vic Circus, so is an investigation being held into her conduct or is she once again going to be conveniently used as the scapegoat, so that the Cabinet can get away with doing whatever it likes as usual? And what about her false statement to me that no palm trees along the seafront had died – another blatant untruth!
The fact is that they couldn’t risk anyone questioning what was going on and trying to save that tree because they had already decided from the very beginning that it was going to come down. The original Council plans clearly show that ALL the London planes on the pre-existing Vic Circus roundabout and all the trees in the Queensway intersection which are so far still standing (running from Vic Circus up to the Homebase roundabout) were going to be cut down. I have seen the plan and it is indisputable, although the Council have since tried to say that it was never their intention to cut those trees down! They would rather deceive people and break their word than give anyone the opportunity to ask perfectly reasonable questions (like how can it cost millions of pounds to re-route some BT cables, as Councillor Rik Morgan and other members of the Council are now doing).
I have been trying for several weeks to obtain updated written confirmation from Lorraine Butler of the verbal conversation we had after the London plane was chopped down, during which she assured me that all the trees in the Queensway intersection were definitely safe. Unfortunately, despite emailing her (and other members of the Cabinet) on an almost daily basis, I am still awaiting the courtesy of a reply. I am extremely concerned that those trees are also going to be hacked down one night soon and who can blame me, going on past experience?
You seem very certain about what is “best” but I can assure you that alot of people in this town do NOT think it’s “best” to keep sneaking in during the night or the early hours of the morning to remove dead trees and chop down perfectly healthy ones! As for protesters chaining themselves to trees, if SKIPP had been given prior warning that the letter they had in their possession was null and void and not worth the paper it was written on, they would’ve had an opportunity to contact BT and find out the facts for themselves, before such desperate measures became necessary. Believe it or not, people do have better things to do with their limited spare time than oppose Southend Council and it would be a huge relief to have a Council that we could actually believe in, but unfortunately this is not the case. Contrary to the Council’s media machine, the protesters are not a bunch of out of work benefit scroungers but a whole cross-section of decent Southend residents, most of whom have full-time jobs and families, who feel compelled to give up their free time to oppose the Council in its insatiable quest for Big Business and profit!
And no, I haven’t seen SAEN’s latest campaign but I fail to see what that has to do with the trees at Vic Circus or along the seafront (although it has plenty to do with the trees at Cuckoo Corner!). I don’t profess to know all the facts and figures about the proposed airport expansion but it does appear that SAEN have a valid legal case as to why the so-called residents’ consultation about the expansion was ignored by the Cabinet and they ploughed on with the expansion regardless of what the majority wanted? Good on SAEN for fighting for justice and what they believe in! To you, their statement may be nothing more than “scaremongering” but to me I wouldn’t put anything past the Southend Cabinet and as their broken promises are now mounting up all over the place, I think we would all be very wise to question everything they tell us from now on.
The council said they asked for plans from the utilities, it was in the echo.
Don’t you think BT would have said something if the council were telling lies about the cables how many companys would just sit there and say nothing… Hmmmmmm let me think about that for less than a billionth of a second NONE, ZERO.
The council do not have to tell Skipp if they are planning to cut down a tree, look at the chaos they caused at Cuckoo Corner with the camp.
Don’t you think e-mailing somebody everyday (or almost everyday) is a bit odd its almost like cyber stalking!
As for the council sneeking about at night, it could be said about whoever puts the yellow ribbons and protest signs up round trees, you never see them doing during the day also there was a number on the Vic cricus construction site the other day.
Thankfully most have noe been removed.
” it does appear that SAEN have a valid legal case as to why the so-called residents’ consultation about the expansion was ignored by the Cabinet and they ploughed on with the expansion regardless of what the majority wanted?”
This story is not about the Airport, but just to clarify… The JAAP consultation was responded to by a tiny percentage of the population of the area. This was despite the extended period and re-delivery of information.
The responses were in many cases duplicated and did not answer the specific question being asked.
As a consequence of the JAAP consultation and Environmental impact assessments etc. discussed during the drawn out planning process. The Section 106 agreement was drawn up…. That is not ignoring the wishes of what amounted to a very very small percentage of people that responded.
This process was then ratified by the then Secretary of State, John Denham.
I am interested to know how they can be have valid legal case? And at the tax payers expense.
Cuckoo corner and the other projects are for the benefit of all business in Southend, and a certain football stadium (if it goes ahead) and its associated facilities will benefit from improved access. It’s just a shame we are not getting the full dualling of Priory Crescent.
The council could only do so much with the reletively small amount allocated. But something has to be done to improve access to Southend if we are ever to attract business and employment to the town. Something SKIPP seem to be so against.
As for the trees. They look great!… Give them time.
Jackie, it has become clear that you and your friends at SKIPP are just anti anything SBC do. Whether its trees, roads, seafront etc etc. Yet the council increased their majority despite SKIPP suggesting an uprising during the last elections.
I used to be so frustrated at the Councils lack of vision and inability to make bold decisions for the future of the town. Thankfully they are now actively doing something about this and we will hopefully see more business attracted to the area.
Regards James
A voter, tax payer and resident of Southend.
Well said James.
Skipp do come accross as Anti-SBC, but more importantly Anti-Job creation.
With the current situation the country is in we need Southend to improve its infrastructure NOW to be in a better possition to attract the private investment when thing truely pick up and companys start looking at spending again, without chaging now Southend will be left behind playing catch up which is a bad place to be.
Other towns are investing now Southend is doing the same which is what is needed, without spending now we will loose out on any future investments that could come our way.
People moan when the council do nothing then moan when they do poor council are in a loose loose situation.
I like the palm trees it adds something diffrent, many people I have spoken too like them too.
The trees should be given a chance and I also agree that the Hamlet Court Road trees be given a closer look as they have been there for more than 3 years now. I used to live in this road and never saw anyone take care of them. I think 3 years is long enough, so maybe a change of tree is in order??????? I’m glad everyone feels so strongly about caring for the environment and hope that all questions are taken seriously and not just tossed to one side. Here’s hoping.
Leave the lovely trees alone !
Palm trees whilst not native do make an intresting edition to the Southend seafront many people cant afford to go off on an overseas holiday to see them so why not bring them to Southend.
How great would it be if the grew coconuts (not that I like them) sell them and use the money to plant more trees.
The trees in Hamlet court road would look a lot better if they weren’t set on fire the week they were put in.